Black Templar Terminator Command Squad List

I promised a list after writing my article about the usefulness of Terminator Command Squads in a Black Templar army. Below are my thoughts on it.

Warning! Warning!  I don't think that this list is particularly competitive.  It certainly has many threats and will pose some serious problems for many armies, but I don't think it has the saturation levels to make it super scary.  It is a rock army.  Luckily, it has two significant rocks, so I can spread the threats. However, that said, I think it is an extremely fun list and will definitely present some strengths on the tabletop.  Here we go:

Emperor's Champion- Accept any Challenge vow- 140pt.
Castellan- terminator armor, chainfist, storm shield- 405pt.
      Terminator Command Squad- tank hunters, 2x cyclone launchers, sarge with chainfist, storm shield
Castellan- terminator armor, chainfist, storm shield- 405pt.
      Terminator Command Squad- tank hunters, 2x cyclone launchers, sarge with chainfist, storm shield

Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, 1 neophyte, multi-melta, meltagun, in rhino with smoke- 163pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, 1 neophyte, multi-melta, meltagun, in rhino with smoke- 163pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, missile launcher, flamer, in rhino with smoke- 149pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, missile launcher, flamer, in rhino with smoke- 149pt.

2 Landspeeders- 2x typhoon missiles launchers, 2x heavy bolter- 140pt.
2 Landspeeders- 2x typhoon missiles launchers, 2x heavy bolter- 140pt.
2 Landspeeders- 2x typhoon missiles launchers, 2x heavy bolter- 140pt.

1994 pt.

So, here's what it has.
22 missile launcher shots across 7 units, 8 of which are S9 when firing at vehicles, two melta bunkers
We have 10 vehicles all of which are pretty vulnerable to return fire, so hitting first and hitting hard is the way to go. 

Optimally, the two TCS can deploy with the melta bunkers and use the rhinos to generate cover (which I suppose they don't need with 2+/5++ and 2+/3++) while firing out with relentless cyclone launchers.  This is the forward element.  The missile launcher rhinos are objective campers and the speeders will bob in weave in my backfield to get off as many shots as possible.  Hopefully, we will be able to get all of the terminators across the field and box in enemy units until they can assault and mop them up.  All the while, templates will be dropped once vehicles are eliminated.  The EC will join a command squad to add some extra combat ability. 

Here are the weakness
1) 22 scoring bodies in AV11 boxes.  This should be relatively easy to neutralize with concentrated firepower.  This is why hitting hard from the start is a must. 
2) Foot terminators are slow.  If I can't demech units, I won't catch them.  I have to make sure I can get units outside of their vehicles and then spread out to limit their movements options.  The terminators will be the shepherds and the clean up crews.  They are the obvious threats though, so they will take a beating on the walk across the table. 
3) Low AV.  Having only AV10-11 will hurt.  Being smart with positioning, especially of the speeders will be crucial.  If I get turn 2, it is essential to hide them well, possibly even reserving them, though this will severely cripple my anti-mech ability. 

So, there are some obvious problems with the list, but it does have some sweet abilities as well.  It will take some especially heinous combat units to deal with the TCS and only a few armies have the ability to negate my armor or torrent enough wounds to deal with them. 

What are your thoughts?  Does this work on the tabletop?  What armies will cause it trouble?  What armies will it dominate or are there any?

Thanks for reading.

Other Black Templar articles I have written include:
Codex Review: Black Templar HQs
Codex Review: Black Templar Heavy Selections
Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 2
____________________________________________________________
Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Are Black Templar Terminator Command Squads a More Viable Option?

It's been awhile since I last posted about 40k.  I have to say that Warmahordes has really captured my interest.  That said, I sold my Blood Angels DoA army because I just wasn't going to get it painted with all of my commission work and Menoth army to work on.  In its absence, I am left with a Black Templar army, a Space Wolf army, and models to pull off a vanilla Marine list.

That got me thinking about my old school love, the Templars. I started 40k because of them and drifted towards more competitive armies after a while, but they are still my favorite army.  I have even done an entire codex review on the army.  Scroll down to see it.  That said, awhile back now, GW released an FAQ that updated some of the rules for outdated wargear for BT.  This gave us, overall, a significant bump.  Combining some old rules with new wargear game Black Templar some interesting options.  The missile spam list became viable using terminators since we can get 2 cyclones in a 5-man squad. This gave our ranged output a significant boost.

However, I wanted to spend a bit of time focusing on some synergies that make me think of how Terminator Command Squads can be used to provide some serious threats. 

Command Squads as they appear in the Black Templar codex are an outdated animal.  The idea of having a unit attached to an HQ as a retinue providing certain benefits just doesn't exist anymore.  That said, with the inclusion of the FAQ, I feel like Terminator Command Squads become a great toolbox for Black Templars.

First of all, we need to discuss what you need. The prime ingredient is an HQ.  Unfortunately, you can't assign a command squad to the Emperor's Champion, that would rock.  You have to pick an additional HQ choice in the form of a Commander/Castellan or Chaplain/Reclusiarch.  Unfortunately, from a points budget standpoint, our HQs are not cheap.  However, they provide quite a bit of combat power. To accomplish our goal, the HQ has to wear terminator armor.  For our purposes, let's go with a Castellan.  He is the cheapest HQ.  We then want to consider his role in the unit.  To do this, we probably need to know what the unit will look like.  A terminator command squad comes with 4 models, 3 grunts and a sargeant.  They have to be tactical terminators, so will come equipped with storm bolters and powerfists.  The sarge can be outfitted with a plethora of terminator weapon options. 

Above we mentioned that our tactical terminators have gotten a huge buff in the form of updated cyclone rules.  Thus, we want to take our two cyclones in this unit.  Then, we want to consider a few things for the sargeant.  What is his role?  He can't provide additional dakka except in the form of a storm bolter, which while nice, if he is in a unit with two cyclones, he probably won't be shooting at infantry until late game.  So, let's look at allowing him some surivivability options and combat options. Since his gun won't even scratch a vehicle, I think he would be a good wound soak.  Giving him a stormshield and a chainfist will mean that most tanks will get chopped up and he provides the unit with a 2+/3++ buffer before we have to put a wound on cyclones.  Add to the unit the tank hunter veteran skill and you are shooting S9 missiles and have S9 powerfists when hitting vehicles. 

Along the same lines, if we give the Castellan a storm shield and chainfist, we add redundancy in combat and a multi-wound model with a solid invul save. 

Thus, I propose the following squad. 

Castellan-terminator armor, chainfist, storm shield
Terminator Command Squad- tank hunters, 2x cyclones, sarge with storm shield and chainfist

This comes in at a hefty price tag, but provides us with a unit that can confidently walk up the table popping armor and then throwing templates into units until it reaches their lines.  At that point, it can get into combat and hold its own with 2+ saves and 5++/3++ invul saves and can punish units with multiple S8 attacks per model.  The diversity of saves also means that power weapon wounds can be effectively dealt with.  These units become very similar to DA deathwing units. 

What's more, an army can have 2 HQs + the EC, so you can bring two such units.  This, with the EC will eat up half of your army, but can provide two brutal rock units.  Combined with min sized crusader squads and Elite tactical terminator squads, you can create a punishing missile spam army that is effective in the shooting phase against both vehicles and infantry and that can hit hard in combat. 

I will work out a 2,000pt list that utilizes at least one terminator command squad to illustrate how it fills out the army. 

What do you think?  Are TCSs too expensive for what they bring?  Are they really a viable combat option?  Let me know.

Other Black Templar articles I have written include:
Codex Review: Black Templar HQs
Codex Review: Black Templar Heavy Selections
Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 2

____________________________________________________________
Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Tweaking the Beatstick

Beatstick courtesy of Bell of Lost Souls

A week or two ago I decided to take a look at a fun BA list that provided quite a few combat threats that were reasonably hard to neutralize for an opponent.  It also included a unit of asssault terminators because of my deep-seeded love for the models.  I dubbed it the Blood Angel Beatstick.  After that, I took it out for a spin against a friend's Grey Knight army for a Black Friday Beatdown. The results were a completely lopsided victory on the part of the Beatstick.  Of course, it's my belief that this occurred due to my opponent's list being severely unoptimized and because of him forgetting to use defensive grenades with his large purifier + character deathstar in the one assault that mattered.  Ultimately, I was able to wipe his whole army save a single strike squad sitting on top of a building. The image was perfection!  My entire army was rapidly moving towards his single strike squad and the game ended with my friend's concession when the building was completely surrounded with his strike squad pouring psycannon and psybolt ammo down from above to little effect due to FNP and 3+ or 2+ saves. 

So, all of the backstory aside, I have been thinking.  Though it was a completely one sided game, one thing I noticed is that my terminator mini-star didn't have as much oomph against WS4 as I wished it would.  With 12 lightning claw and 6 thunder hammer attacks on the charge, I still only land half of those statistically and in real life, my dice hate me, so though the unit is scary as all get out, it really is more of a pushover against other elite infantry which it is supposed to take out. 

My thought would be to add in a chaplain to the unit, either power armored or terminator armored, but I am having a bit of trouble finding the points.  Here is the army in its original iteration:

Mephiston- 250pt.

5 Assault Terminators- 3x lightning claws, 2x thunder hammer, riding in a Crusader with pintle melta- 470pt.
3x Sanguinary Priests- 2 naked, 1 with a jump pack- 175pt.

10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.
10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.
10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.

Landspeeder Tornado- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 70pt.
Landspeeder Tornado- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 70pt.

5 Devestators- 4x missiles- 130pt.
5 Devestators- 4x missiles- 130pt.

2,000pt on the nose

The army, as it stands now, has a good deal of nice threats.  The only place I could think about removing points for a chaplain would be to remove the landspeeders, but they provide a good deepstrike/fast threat in my opponents' backfield.  Granted, I was very lucky with them in my previous game, but they usually die quickly due to AV10, so I am not necessarily fussed about it, but I think I might miss the melta threat they provide.

That said, I don't want to mess with anything else.  Everything else really makes the army.  In my previous game, the terminators went with a priest in the LRC and it was used as mobile terrain to shelter Mephiston and a single assault squad forward so that they could lay down the smack when I got close enough.  This left me two more squads to come via deepstrike and provide a bit more pressure. 

What would you suggest?  If I dropped the speeders, I would have 140pt. to spend on either an elite or HQ chappy.  Both have merit. The Reclusiarch has better number of attacks and wounds and can take a hand flamer with the additional points (130+10) to be an annoyance.  The elite chappy is cheap enough to to take terminator armor and meltabombs which would make him more survivable in regards to armor save.  Either is good. 

So, please comment and tell me what you might suggest.  The overall goal is to allow the terminators to overcome their "shyness" when facing WS4 and I think a chaplain would be the best fit for the job.  I await your thoughts.

Some Battle Reports:
Space Wolf Razorspam vs. Horde Orks- a Vassal Report
Sanguinary v. Grey Knights
Vulkan Ain't No Joke
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Laying Down the Beatstick, Blood Angel Style

So, I've really been missing my terminators.  Currently, my two most played armies as using power armored troops more than their more heavily armored brothers.  In my Space Wolf army, I generally use a single cyclone missile terminator and my Blood Angel army uses assault marines and Sanguinary Guard. Of course, I always use my terminators in my Black Templar lists, but I just haven't been in the mood to get those guys out lately. 

That got me to thinking about how I could put them into a Blood Angel list, as that is the easiest army I play to include them in currently.  To that end, I wanted to put together a nasty beatstick army.  Of course, Blood Angels are already a beatstick, but I wanted to go whole hog.  This is what I came up with.  Thought will follow afterward.

Space Hulk Terminators courtesy of dakkadakka

Mephiston- 250pt.

5 Assault Terminators- 3x lightning claws, 2x thunder hammer, riding in a Crusader with pintle melta- 470pt.
3x Sanguinary Priests- 2 naked, 1 with a jump pack- 175pt.

10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.
10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.
10 Assault Marines- 2x meltaguns, powerfist- 235pt.

Landspeeder Tornado- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 70pt.
Landspeeder Tornado- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 70pt.

5 Devestators- 4x missiles- 130pt.
5 Devestators- 4x missiles- 130pt.

2,000pt on the nose

So, why is this a beatstick and how does it work? 

It is meant to force close combat.  There is enough pressure from my anti-mech elements to force my opponent to move to midfield to engage.  8 missiles, deepstriking assault marines and 2 deepstriking multi-meltas will force opponents to either turtle and pray I don't get to them with my combat troops or they will have to come forward or spread out to negate the effectiveness of my guns.

The real core of this army though are Mephiston, the terminators, and the assault marines. I am basically going to use the LRC as moving terrain to block LoS to my assault marines and Mephiston, moving everything forward at full speed.  Then when I am close, the units jump out and kill stuff.  Plain and simple.  Pretty one dimensional, but definitely fun to play.  I am betting that most armies won't be stupid enough to move within retaliation range to melta my LRC, because if they do, counter-assaults and consolidation moves will move my pissed off marines into their faces.  To that end, the LRC will move up as fast as possible every turn, so that if it does get shot down, it is close enough for everything to jump out and start the killing. 

Ideally, the LRC will deploy the shortest distance from the bulk of my opponents' armies and move forward.  Mephiston and a single assault squad will shadow the LRC to get cover and benefit from the Sanguinary Priest's aura (he'll be riding with the terminators).  The other foot priest will babysit my devestators making them very unappealing to shoot at.  Finally, my speeders and other 2 assault squads (with jump priest) will deepstrike in to cause as much damage as possible with their meltas and then in assault. 

It's simple and straightforward.  I know that occasionally, I will run into trouble, but I hope to have enough threats on the table that even should one die, the others will make it to combat and cause some damage.  It isn't the most balanced list, but it sure looks fun to play.  Let me know what you think, especially if you have played a similar list before.

I'm sure some of you are wondering about my progress with coming to grips with Dark Eldar.  I hope to have a proposed playtest list soon.  More on that at a later time.   

Some Battle Reports:
Space Wolf Razorspam vs. Horde Orks- a Vassal Report
Sanguinary v. Grey Knights
Vulkan Ain't No Joke
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Thinking about Njal

courtesy of lexicanum

So, I do my fair share of keeping up with the latest and greatest interweb goings on when it comes to 40k.  I like to know what is happening in the world at large despite not actually getting to go to tournaments, etc.  That said, I have read the Nova battle reports, I have heard everyone's musings, and I know the Grey Knights are the new hottness, for the time being.  This has caused me to wonder how to best set up my Space Wolves for success.  It really does seem like taking a solid form of psychic defense can cause headaches for the Grey Knights.  Not being able to get off hammerhand makes their units far less scary.  Force weapons having to wound on a 4+ aren't nearly as bad as those wounding on 3+ and daemonhammers don't scare thunderwolves as much when they aren't S10.  A solid psychic defense also make vehicles more vunerable as all of a sudden fortitude isn't going off as often. 

As I have wondered on this, an idea has come to mind.  Njal!  Granted the man is super expensive, but he gives me 2 psychic powers a turn, a straight up 3+ to cancel opponent psychic powers, and he has the Lord of the Tempests rule which is really like a third psychic power that gets stronger the longer the game goes on.  Njal costs two regular rune priests, I thought to myself, that's two living lightnings a turn as opposed to Njal.  However, I think the key to Njal is how he can create a strong no psychic zone and the threat of Lord of Tempests is also pretty great. 

To that end, I have come up with the following list:

Njal

5 Wolf Scouts- meltagun, WG with combi-melta/powerfist
5 Wolf Guard- 1x combi-melta/powerfist, 4x bolt pistol/power weapon

8 Grey Hunters- meltagun, power weapon, mark of the wulfen, wolf standard, WG w/power weapon, rhino
9 Grey Hunters- meltagun, power weapon, wolf standard, WG w/power weapon, rhino
5 Grey Hunters- meltagun, WG w/power weapon, las/plas razorback
5 Grey Hunters- meltagun, WG w/power weapon, las/plas razorback

2x Thunderwolves- powerfist, storm shield
2x Thunderwolves- powerfist, storm shield

5 Long Fangs- 4x missiles, TL las razorback
5 Long Fangs- 4x missiles, TL las razorback
5 Long Fangs- 4x missiles

I feel like this list gives me an appropriate vanguard of units consisting of the two rhino squads and the thunderwolves. There job is to get Njal close for Lord of Tempests to do its worst.  Then I have 4 heavy weapons platforms on vehicles and 12 missiles to help control opponents' mech and can event use them to threaten hordes (12 frag templates).  This list really isn't anything new or exciting but I feel like it is a way to incorporate Njal for his stellar psychic defense which could be a real boon against Grey Knights. 

What do you think?  Does it have what it takes?  What would it suffer against?  Don't think just about Grey Knights, but other armies as well. I would love to receive some input.  Thanks.

Other Space Wolf articles:
Lord of the Thunderhooves
The Templar Wolves Ride Again: The Severe Beating of A Blood Angel Army
Las/plas razors versus TLLC razors, a novice's opinion
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Chasing a Tangent: The Crazy List Idea

Well, I got one response to my call for list help, though I got quite a bit of good information and discussion on why to use or not use Ironclads.  You can see a proposed list in the comments section of my original post, Chasing a Tangent.  Thanks Student Teacher!  You can see the Ironclad discussion in my post, Ironclads: Any Good?  Thanks to those guys for offering their input. 

So, here are the things I have learned about a dread heavy list from past experience. You may get a lot of this from reading my other posts mentioned above, but I am going to consolidate them here.

Courtesy of Strangelooper's Cangames 2011 Report

To begin with, the list will obviously need a Master of the Forge.  He is the only way to get more than 3 Dreadnoughts.  Since he comes stock with a 2+ save (not much without an invul, but not bad either) and 2 power fist attacks, I generally leave him cheap with just a bolter.  100pt. done.

Then the choices start.  How do we want to kit out the Dreadnoughts?  Well, I have come to the conclusion that my dread list is going to only have 5 dreads.  I need a solid combat threat and the best one Codex Marines have comes in the form of thunder hammer/storm shield terminators, but more on them later.  Thus, I have a spot for a maximum of 5 dreads.  Cool.  I generally split my dreads into two categories in my head, ranged support and close combat/melta support.  The hands down winner for the ranged support is the jack-of-all-trades, Rifleman Dread.  Two twin-linked autocannons putting down 4 S7 AP4 shots is great and can handle light mech and infantry with a fair amount of ease.  Since I am going to have other ranged option for support, this is where I will make my dividing line.  Two Riflemen will fill my elite slots beside my terminators.  This leaves 3 spots for dreads left.

After hashing it out, playtesting, and finding out what works, I realized that I need dreads that can get close in quickly, pop mech or toast infantry with equal ease, and provide enough threat in order to make my opponent make some mistakes while I close on them.  With that in mind, I have come up with two possible options: the simple MM/DCCW vanilla Dreadnought or an Ironclad with meltagun and heavy flamer.  The best delivery method for each is a drop pod as with three dreadnoughts in drop pods, I have two coming down turn 1 and the third hopefully coming down soon after.  This gets them across the board quickly and puts them in threat range.

As discussed in earlier posts, the Ironclad looks like it should win hands down with AV13 on front and sides, two DCCWs, extra armor, and other nice upgrades.  As stated though, my issue with this guy is his range.  With no solid weapon option for popping mech with a range over 12" (meltagun), he has to stay in close and if he doesn't pop armor, he is more than likely going to be avoided by vehicles moving flat out to stay away from him.  I have seen this done several times. Of course, he can take HK missiles, but I haven't had much luck with those in my experience.  Another note to mention is that at close range, AV13 and AV12 will die to melta with equal ease. 

The vanilla dread though, has a multi-melta which gives a significant range boost thus keeping most units within threat range.  On top of that, it can take the heavy flamer on it's DCCW which significantly boosts its ability to take on squads in close combat since it loses an attack versus the Ironclad. No biggie though.  On top of that, a vanilla dread saves me 50pts. versus an Ironclad with HK missiles, totaling 150pt. saved across the three remaining slots.  Not bad at all. 

So, that leaves me with the following:

MotF-100pt.
Rifleman-125pt.
Rifleman-125pt.

Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.

That's 800pt. which gives me 1200pt to play with.  As mentioned I want a solid combat threat and the best one I have is hammernators.  To make best use of the remaining slot, I think taking a squad of 10 for 400pt is solid.  That gives me the ability to have one nasty unit or two solid threats via combat squadding. 

I am now left with the options for filling my troop choices.  As mentioned earlier, I really need some more ranged firepower, so though it may seem spare I am going to go with 3 min sized tac squads in las/plas razorbacks.  That gives me 3 more heavy weapons platforms and three scoring options, though they are a bit skinny with only 15 marines to provide objective support.  To bolster that a bit, I will add a home camping squad of scouts with sniper rifles, missile launcher, and camo cloaks. The MotF can bolster a building for them to be in with a 2+ cover and he can join the unit to help babysit them/stay safe.  If I keep my rifleman dreads close, he can zoom over and affect repairs if they become damaged. That brings us to the following:

MotF-100pt.

Rifleman-125pt.
Rifleman-125pt.
10 Terminators-thunder hammer/storm shield- 400pt

5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 scouts- sniper rifles, missile launcher, camo cloaks- 100pt.

Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.

This gives me exactly 205pt to play with.  I guess technically, I should put that into another troop choice or triple landspeeders, but here is where I think I can add a twist to really create pressure on my opponent: Kayvaan Shrike.  Yep.  Add Shrike and all of a sudden I have fleet terminators, of which all or one combat squad can infiltrate if Shrike joins them.  This makes them a very solid, aggressive combat threat that will be hard to remove.  This is where I imagine this army doing well.  The terminators infiltrate and move aggressively forward.  The first two dreads drop in on the flanks or behind my opponent and start to pop mech with my ranged support.  These units form my noose.  As it tightens, my opponent should hopefully become paralyzed in how it deals with the incoming threats allowing me to slowly move up my razorback to claim objectives.  The dreads, pods, and terminators will contest objectives on my opponents' side of the board and hopefully net some solid KP in those type of missions. 

So, the final list as I see it:

MotF-100pt.
Kayvaan Shrike- 195pt.

Rifleman-125pt.
Rifleman-125pt.
10 Terminators-thunder hammer/storm shield- 400pt

5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 marines- las/plas razorback-165pt.
5 scouts- sniper rifles, missile launcher, camo cloaks- 100pt.

Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.
Dreadnought-MM/DCCW with heavy flamer, pod-150pt.

This comes in at 1990pt. with 4 scoring options, solid combat threat along with the ability to open up transports with a fair amount of ease.  I can add searchlights to dreads or a combi-weapon to a sarge to fill out the last 10pt. In my head it works.  In reality, it may not.  I see two potential fixes if it doesn't work.  1 would be to drop Shrike for Vulkan to make the army a bit more reliable (dreads and terminators anyway), or drop Shrike for three speeders, probably multi-melta/heavy flamer to help with opening up armor. 

So there you have it, my crazy dread heavy idea.  What do you think?  Feel free to tear it apart if you like.  I am not attached to it as I haven't had an opportunity to actually play it yet.  It is just an army that I think would work well and provide a solid threat.  I am interested to get feedback. So, let a rip!


Other useful articles:
Strictly Average
For kicks
Heading in another direction
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Chasing a Tangent

We are spending the long weekend visiting some relatives out of state, but not far enough away that we had a good 5-6 hour drive.  That allowed me to do a bit of zoning out, a bit of thinking, and a bit of Thoughthammering(registered trademark).  I find myself thinking about 40k a lot and this drive was no different.  I chose to listen to the 11th Company for a bit while my wife and son were asleep.  It got me thinking of an old idea. 

I started this blog several months ago with the idea (in my second post no less) for an army of 6 dreadnoughts led by a Master of the Forge.  It was to be my second army, the first being my Black Templars.  It actually took on several incarnations.  As time went on I moved on to other armies.  Having played a bit with Black Templars and Codex Marines and then having moved on to Space Wolves and Blood Angels to gain more experience from a competitive perspective, I kind of want to go back and revisit this idea.  I love the idea of an army of massive behemoths laying waste to their enemies via large quantities of heavy weapons and crushing close combat claws. 

That's where you come in, readers.  I want to seek some help from you.  I want to open up the floor for suggestions for a dread army.  The requirements are easy.  It must be Codex:Marines.  It must be 2,000 points.  It must have a Master of the Forge.  It must have 5 dreadnoughts minimum (giving you some leeway for an elite or heavy choice other than dreads).  So, let me hear your thoughts.  I have an idea, but I don't want to unveil it until I get a few comments back.  I am interested to see what you can come up with.  AbusePuppy, Lord Rao, some of you other guys, I am ready to receive the benefit of your wisdom and knowledge. 

Hit me with your best shot.



Some Dreadnought Army Battle Reports:
Test drive....bumpy
I'm an idiot
Putting the First Feather in the Cap
__________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Reader list help

Just like a kid in the toy aisle of your local Wal-Mart, working on my new Lord of the Thunderhooves "toy" and playing with my Space Wolves has really gotten me in the mood to work on a thunderwolf list.  I have had a lot of recent success with my razorspam list and am fairly confident in building that type of list.  However, the thunderwolf list is a bit different.  For some reason, I just can't get a list that sits right with me.  Let me show you what I have come up with currently. 

Lord of the Thunderhooves!(Wolflord)- thunderwolf mount, runic armor,wolf claw, storm shield, saga of the warrior born, meltabombs- 255pt.
Rune Priest- chooser of the slain, living lightning, jaws of the world wolf- 110pt.

Wolf Scouts- meltagun- 85pt.
4 Wolf Guard- All with combi-melta/bolt pistol- 92pt.

9 Grey Hunters- meltagun, powerfist, wolf standard, rhino- 210pt.
9 Grey Hunters- meltagun, powerfist, wolf standard, rhino- 210pt.
8 Grey Hunters- meltagun, powerfist, wolf standard, rhino- 195pt.

2 Thunderwolf Cav- 1x powerfist/storm shield, 1x ccw/storm shield/meltabombs- 190pt.
2 Thunderwolf Cav- 1x powerfist/storm shield, 1x ccw/storm shield- 185pt.

5 Longfangs- 4x missiles, heavy bolter razorback-155pt.
5 Longfangs- 4x missiles, heavy bolter razorback-155pt.
5 Longfangs- 4x missiles, heavy bolter razorback-155pt.

1997pt.

So, here's how I envision this working.  First, opposite of my razorspam list, this is very much an aggressive list.  It wants to cross the field and handle things up close.  The three rhinos and grey hunters will move forward with thunderwolf support. Initially, I see the Lord sitting in one of the units until they get closer to enemy lines when he will split off and handle things on his own.  I didn't have the points for the fenrisians on him, so I thought this would be an okay option for protecting him.  This basically means that each rhino squad will get an attached thunderwolf element (2 units of cav and the lord).  The scouts and longfangs do what they do, disrupting my opponents' armor. I added heavy bolter razorbacks for some additional suppressive fire.  They seem to be coming back in vogue lately and I thought I would try them out.  They will be my long range to midfield support element, hopefully using cover to help protect from return fire and possibly contesting objectives late in the game if they survive and I need them to. 

There you have the overall strategy.  What do you think?  As mentioned, it doesn't exactly sit well with me.  That's why I need your input.  Is the list decent?  Does it suck?  Do you have other ideas?  I would love to see some posted list ideas in the comments section.  Here are my caveats.  Everything else is up for grabs but these things. 

1) There has to be a thunderwolf lord.  He has to have warrior born.  I just think this makes an epic, superkilly character. Weapon loadouts are optional, though I think the wolf claw brings added insurance for kills over most of the other weapons due to rerolls where you need them. 

2) I only have 4 other thunderwolf cav.  I know that limits things a bit.  I can't run double lords with 5 cav to lead each. Unfortunately, I am just not there yet. 

If you think you can help put together a better list, please help!  I would love to get some input.  Just post your thoughts and possible lists in the comments section.  Thanks.

Other useful Space Wolf articles:
Why Space Wolves are so Great
Space Wolf Stealth Cheese
Space Wolf Stealth Cheese Part Deux
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Light Mech Space Wolves and 'Ardboyz

I was able to get in a fun game with my Templar Wolves the other day against a horde Ork army.  It got me thinking about a few things that could make a really competitive army in relation to 'Arboyz. 

First, if you haven't seen them, the 'Arboyz scenarios have been published.  You can see them and a quick review by my favorite analytical mind AbusePuppy on 3++ is the New Black. That said, I noticed a few things about the scenarios.

1) 2 scenarios have night fighting rules on turn one, scenarios 1 and 3.  Scenario 1 is a pitched battle deployment though, meaning you can have your whole army already deployed on the table while scenario 3 is a true dawn of war scenario. It is interesting to see that scenario 2 has night fighting rules as well, but at the end of the game.

2) 2 scenarios (1 and 3 again) are primarily based on killing your opponent. 

These things help out Space Wolves due to a few things.  1) Acute senses and proper positioning can really give us an advantage and 2) Space Wolves can bring lots of ranged weaponry in 2,500pt. 

So, what is the plan for a 2,500pt army that can compete against things like IG and Grey Knights? 

Razorspam

That's right.  Despite the fact that Grey Knights are the apparent heralds of the end of light mech armies, I think Space Wolves stand a chance of doing well with ligh mech spam.  They do well because of the incredibly cheap cost of taking viable units that are decent assault units, can provide anti-infantry fire, and anti-tank fire all in one tidy package.  For 155pt, I can take a unit of Grey Hunters with a las/plas or TL las razorback and a meltagun.  This affords me a lot of options. Space Wolves can easily fit 9 razorbacks into a 2,500pt. list and still have a fairly meaty infantry presence. And taking razorbacks in the heavy slots doesn't prevent you from taking additional heavy weapons in the form of long fangs. 

The next step is getting the drop on my opponents.  This means, I need to have a way of reliably being able to cause a lot of damage early.  Two things come into play here.  1) Nightfighting rules and Space Wolves ability to negate them through proper placement of vehicles and acute senses and 2) Bjorn the Fellhanded to provide a reroll to deploy and most likely (barring siezed initiative rolls) play first. 

Razorspam seeks to not only provide target saturation (and in the case of Space Wolves hyper saturation), but also to provide a lot of heavy weapons to fire on turn 1 in hopes of crippling my opponents. Since this post is already getting verbose, let's look at my proposed list.  It seeks to pack in as much high strength shooting as possible and utilizes grey hunters in massed combo assaults to provide counter assaults. 

Here goes:
Bjorn the Fellhanded- plasma cannon- 270pt.
Rune Priest-living lightning, jaws of the world wolf, chooser of the slain- 110pt.
Rune Priest-living lightning, muderous hurricane, chooser of the slain- 110pt.

5 Wolf Scouts- meltagun- 85pt.
5 Wolf Scouts- meltagun- 85pt.
7 Wolf Guard- 4x pistol/power weapon, 2x combi-melta/powerfist, 1x terminator with cyclone missile- 261pt.

5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.
5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.
5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.
5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.
5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.
5 Grey Hunters-meltagun, las/plas razorback- 155pt.

6 Long Fangs- 5x missile launchers, las/plas razorback-215pt.
6 Long Fangs- 5x missile launchers, las/plas razorback-215pt.
6 Long Fangs- 5x missile launchers, las/plas razorback-215pt.

2,496pt.

So this army utilizes quite a lot of heavy weapons and hopes Bjorn can score them the right to pick who gets first turn in order to blast targets.  In dawn of war or nightfighting scenarios, the razorbacks will use searchlights to help the rest of the army see targets in hopes of crippling armies turn 1 with a barrage of high strength shots at range, 9 lascannons and plasmaguns, 17 missile launchers, 1 plasma cannon, and 2 living lightnings to be exact.  This army even provides enough shots to worry Grey Knights as they are most comfortable at 24" and this army can comfortably sit in the 24"-48" bubble of safety with careful movement as it thins down an already low model count army.  They only need to focus on those pesky psyflemen in order to negate a lot of the Grey Knights' ranged effect. 

Glaring weaknesses?  Yep.  It's a gimick army like most will be at 2,500pt.  However, it has 6 troops that provide 34 scoring bodies (including attending wolf guard models).  It isn't great at counter assault, but hopefully most armies will be somewhat thinned out by time they get to it's meaty center.  Deepstriking armies can cause trouble, but there are enough models to create strong deepstrike denial zones even for Blood Angels.  If I don't get 1st turn, I have to hope I can weather shooting for a turn before I can lay down the hurt. 

I do have an interesting ace up my sleeve as well in Bjorn.  I would more than likely play him aggressively using his plasma cannon (and stellar BS6) to take out elite infantry.  If he gets destroyed, I get a fearless army.  That means my gun line won't run late in the game either if I lose him. Also, a 4+ psychic hood can help against just about every army with psychic offense (I'm looking at you Grey Knights). 

So, this is obviously just a bunch of speculation and theoryhammering, but I think it would have quite a bit to offer.  What do you think?  Leave a comment and let me know if I am just out of my mind or if this might work out. 
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Grey Knight Terminator Army, Take Two

A week or so ago, I played my most recent Grey Knight list against a henchman spam list.  I didn't fare well at all.  The dreadnoughts were taken out quickly and then they terminators had to wade across the board to get to his more mobile firebase.  It seems to me that the list needs some revamping.

After looking at my list, it doesn't suffer from the ability to lay out a high volume of high strength shots or even combat ability.  It's biggest hurdle was mobility.  Even when you have 27 terminators moving 6" every turn, it will take awhile to get across the board and that is if your opponent even wants to let you get near to them.  So, here's what I've changed to accomodate a more mobile all terminator force.
First, though he is a beast and grand strategist is nice, I just can't afford to drop 255 points on a Grandmaster. That is another full squad of terminators plus some. For that matter, with a terminator force points are at a premium, so I dropped the libby as well. That leaves me without an HQ.  I need something really cheap, that can contribute to some portion of my army's overall makeup (ranged attack or close combat).  How about an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor.  If I give him terminator armor and a psycannon, he comes in at 80 points and can contribute to my shooting.  Done. Overall savings from dropping the Grandmaster and Librarian and adding an Ordo Malleus Inquisitor is 370 points.  Not too shabby

Now I need to add some mobility to the army.  In order to do this, I need to create some units that can get across the board and wreak havoc amongst my opponents' lines.  What's the quickest way across the board besides deepstriking? Stormravens.  Yep, I am going to switch two of my 5 terminator squads to full on close combat (with no psycannons) and put them in two stormravens in order to quickly get them across the board.  The stormravens will also act as gunboats and anti-tank platforms once their payloads have been dropped. 

So, here is what I'm thinking about. 

Ordo Malleus Inquisitor- terminator, psycannon- 80pt.

5 Terminators- 4x halberds, hammer, psycannon- 225pt.
5 Terminators- 4x halberds, hammer, psycannon- 225pt.
5 Terminators- 4x halberds, hammer, psycannon- 225pt.
5 Terminators- 4x halberds, hammer- 200pt.
5 Terminators- 4x halberds, hammer- 200pt.

Stormraven- twin linked multi-melta, twin linked assault cannon, extra armor- 220pt.
Stormraven- twin linked multi-melta, twin linked assault cannon, extra armor- 220pt.
Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannons, psybolt ammo- 135pt.
Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannons, psybolt ammo- 135pt.
Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannons, psybolt ammo- 135pt.

2,000pt on the dot. 

I am unsure as to what turret weapon to put on the stormravens as they are all tempting.  I am definitely going with the TL multi-melta though as I can machine spirit and blast a tank if I need.  Currently, I like the lascannon option for it's range and ability to be fired immediately, but it doesn't mesh with the multi-melta well.  That would lead me to one of the other options.  I like the plasma cannon because I can blow up a transport and then use PotMS to drop a template on the disembarked squad on the inside.  Then again, the assault cannon can do a lot of damage to infantry and can take out light mech well too.

Either way, the general strategy is to deploy the three shootier squads, dreads, and inquisitor and walk them across the board and shoot while the stormravens turbo-boost across to drop off "combat" terminators to sow discord and act as bullet magnets which will hopefully throw my opponents into disarray. If they can't take down the stormravens, then they will commence with shooting up tanks and infantry to add pressure along with the other units.  I am hoping this two pronged approach will protect my advancing terminators and dreadnoughts from incoming fire or at least dillute the fire coming at them.

So, what are your thoughts?  Will this army stand up? It still isn't optimized Grey Knights, but it is highly resilient and can apply pressure quickly, especially against armies that have to close with you to be effect (tyranids, orks, blood angels).   Post your comments and tell me what you think.

Other articles you might find useful:
First Game Playing with Grey Knights: Shoot Out
Psycannons: Why They are Game Changing for Grey Knights
Grey Knights, Psycannons, Halberds, and the Sanguinary Guard

____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Making the Sanguinary Guard Competitive

I have been doing a lot of blog perusing and thinking about how to make the Sanguinary Guard army more competitive.  It really is a gimmick army.  It relies on a lot of luck and hitting hard and fast to win.  Well balanced armies eat it for lunch.  After reading a bit of Kirby's stuff on Blood Angels, I am convinced that I can use SG as a focus for my army while still maintaining balance.  I came across a blog called Terminus Est that many of you may have heard of.  The primary writer, Black Blow Fly, has done a lot of work in creating a DoA army and blogging about it and based on that, I think I have created an interesting army concept.  Let me know what you think.

Dante
Libby- shield, sword

3 Sanguinary Priests-2x jump packs with hand flamers

5 Sanguinary Guard- 2x infernus, powerfist
5 Sanguinary Guard- 2x infernus, powerfist
5 Sanguinary Guard- 2x infernus, powerfist
10 man Assault Squad- 2x meltaguns, powerfist
5 man Scouts Squad- 4x sniper rifles, missile launcher

Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer
Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer

5 Devestators- 4x missile launchers
5 Devestators- 4x missile launchers

So how does this differ from other lists I have come up with? 

1) No Mephiston.  The guy is great and a beast, but he has a 250pt. price tag.  That is two whole units!  I got both the scout squad and the assault squad for his price tag.

2) More scoring units.  This list now has 5 (or 6 if I combat squad) scoring units.  This relieves the presure on my Sanguinary Guard.  When they were taking on the role of hammer units and scoring troops, there was a lot of burden to play conservatively with them.  In this setup, they still have to be played with reasonably, but can now also be a bit more aggressive knowing that other units can fill in the gap for them in holding objectives. 

3) More ranged attack.  Adding snipers and another missile launcher can give me a bit more ranged damage output.  Even having the addition of 12" melta in the assault squad is nice.  I missed that a whole lot.

4) Different playstyle.  This setup allows me, as mentioned above, the ability to be more agressive with my sanguinary guard.  I also have a fairly resilient home base presence with devestators and scouts backed by a sanguinary priest.  Together they can pump out quite a few S5 I5 attacks if needed.   Also, my libby becomes a utility HQ instead of a beat stick.  His job is to help protect the army.  Since I have an assault squad that could benefit, I may even give him unleash rage for more combat punch. 

The bottom line is that I can afford to be more in-your-face with an army like this.  I like that. 

So, does anyone have any thoughts on this new list?  Does it look more competitive than my most recent build found here? 

Also, I am looking for decent tactics on scouts.  I haven't really ever used them before and want to know how best to work with them.  For this particular army, I think their current setup is good, though I have thought about making one of my speeders a storm and giving them a close combat focus.  If I did that, I could use it's mobility to put them where I wanted them before making runs on vehicles with it's melta, but I digress.  I primarily want them for a home base objective camper and the sniper/camo/missile setup seems to be the best way to do this.  So, if you have any useful links, let me have them.

Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 2

The next list I will show is pretty much a textbook example of a rock list.  It uses multiple Land Raiders to project threat across the field. As such, this army uses a more nonstandard units that I wouldn't normally use, to fill out support rolls. 

Emperor's Champion- AAC vow- 140pt.

Assault Terminators- 4x lightning claws, 1x thunder hammer/storm shields, furious charge, land raider crusader, smoke- 483pt.

Crusader Squad- 10 initiates, 4 neophytes, powerfist, meltagun, land raider crusader- 490pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, multi-melta, meltagun, rhino with smoke- 153pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, multi-melta, meltagun, rhino with smoke- 153pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, missile launcher- 90pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, missile launcher- 90pt.

Landspeeder- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 75pt.
Landspeeder- multi-melta, heavy flamer- 75pt.

Predator- autocannon, lascannon sponsons- 125pt.
Predator- autocannon, lascannon sponsons- 125pt.

1,999pt.

This army relies on applied pressure through the two land raiders.  The assault terminators are a wonderful hammer unit on their own, so the EC joins the large crusader squad to make another considerable threat.  The landspeeders and melta bunkers move in to the midfield and threaten armor and if their contents are somewhat weak, they will attempt to tie them up or take them out altogether.  The infantry squads stay in your backfield and shoot missiles and protect the predators. 

So, this army is a rock due to its dependency on those land raiders.  Should they be neutralized, you will have an uphill climb if not a loss.

If you missed it, here is the articles before this one in the series:
Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 1

____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 1

With the general overview of the Templars done, I figured I would go ahead and take a look at some of the more popular lists.  To start off with, I am going to present two fairly balanced lists that give multiple threats and take a more all-comers approach.  Their main difference is their usage of heavy support.

List 1

Emperor's Champion- Accept any Challenge vow- 140pt.

Venerable Dreadnought- TL lascannon, missile launcher, extra armor, tank hunter skill- 170pt.
Assault Terminators- 4 lightning claws, 1 thunder hammer/storm shield, furious charge, land raider crusader with smoke- 483pt.

Crusader Squad- 7 initiates, 2 neophytes, power fist, meltagun, rhino with extra armor and smoke-224pt.
Crusader Squad- 7 initiates, 2 neophytes, power fist, meltagun, rhino with extra armor and smoke-224pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, multi-melta, meltagun, rhino with extra armor and smoke- 158pt.

Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 75pt.
Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 75pt.
Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 75pt.

Vindicator- 125pt.
Vindicator- 125pt.
Vindicator- 125pt.

1,999pt. 

This list utilizes the Vindicator rush and puts down multiple S10 templates to damage opponents.  The speeders will deepstrike in or move forward aggressively to block and attack armor. This target saturation should help the rhinos and land raider move forward with less trouble.  The venerable dread is my alternate method for tanking out high AV.  Between it and S10 templates from the vindicators, I should be able to soften up most armies in time for my combat elements to take down. 

List 2

Emperor's Champion- Accept any Challenge vow- 140pt.
Marshal- lightning claw, storm shield, artificer armor, terminator honors- 155pt.

Venerable Dreadnought- TL lascannon, DCCW with heavy flamer, extra armor, smoke, tank hunter skill- 173pt.
Assault Terminators- 4 lightning claws, 1 thunder hammer/storm shield, furious charge, land raider crusader with smoke- 483pt.

Crusader Squad- 7 initiates, 2 neophytes, power fist, meltagun, rhino with extra armor and smoke-224pt.
Crusader Squad- 7 initiates, 2 neophytes, power fist, meltagun, rhino with extra armor and smoke-224pt.
Crusader Squad- 5 initiates, missile launcher, razorback with TL lascannon with extra armor and smoke- 194pt.

Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 75pt.
Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 75pt.

Predator- autocannon, lascannon sponsons, smoke- 128pt.
Predator- autocannon, lascannon sponsons, smoke- 128pt.

This list focuses more on using lascannons for long range support.  It additionally has a marshal who can pack a ton of punch in combat.  This gives the army 3 solid combat threats.  The speeders do the same thing as the other list.  The venerable is a bit different.  I gave him a DCCW and heavy flamer to help protect the predators and clear out the backfield.  He is a tough customer when it comes down to it as he can reroll his hits and wounds with S10, so he will do damage. 

Both lists take a more balanced approach to fighting with decent ranged support, melta threat and combat potential.  Ultimately, I believe these lists seem to be the most flexible when it comes to taking on multiple armies.

If you missed it, here is the articles before this one in the series:
Codex Review: Black Templar Heavy Selections

And here is the next articles in the series:
Codex Review: Black Templar lists Part 2
____________________________________________________________

Did you find this article useful? Subscribe to Gone to Ground for more great updates.

You be the Judge: Grey Knight tourney list submission

I have a friend who has been collecting Warhammer models since the dawn of time.  He has an extensive collection.  That said, his collection is somewhat limited in terms of models that he can field and maintain WYSIWYG.  So, when he started putting together his Grey Knight lists for a GT, I knew that they wouldn't be optimized.  However, my friend is an excellent player, regularly ranking in the top ten places at major WFB tournaments, if not obtaining best general.  He asked me for advice on two lists that he thought about taking and while money isn't an issue for new models, time, assembly, and painting are, so buying more models isn't possible. Below are his two lists and then you will see my response. 

List 1
HQ- Inquisitor w/ term armor, psycannon, 3 servo skulls, level 1 psyker - 119 points
HQ- Librarian w/ digi weapons, Mastercrafted thunderhammer, sanctuary, warp rift 170 points

Elite- Vindicare Assassin 145 points
Elite- Purifier Squad w/ 5 add troop, psycannon, psybolts 270 points

Trp- Strike Squad w/ 5 add, 2 psycannons, halberd, hammer, falchion, psybolt 265 points
Trp- Strike Squad w/ 5 add, 2 psycannons, halberd, hammer, falchion, psybolt 265 points
Trp - Term Squad w/ 5 add trps, sword, hammer, 8 falchions 400 points

Hvy- Purgation squad w/ 1 add troop, 2 psilencers, 2 psycannons, homer 185 points
Hvy- Purgation squad w/ 1 add troop, 3 psilencers, warding stave homer 180 points

1999 total

List 2
HQ- Librarian w/ digi weapons, Mastercrafted thunderhammer, sanctuary, warp rift, quicksilver 175 points

Elite- Vindicare Assassin 145 points
Elite- Purifier Squad w/ 5 add troop, psycannon, psybolts 270 points

Trp- Strike Squad w/ 5 add, 2 psycannons, halberd, hammer, falchion, psybolt 265 points
Trp Strike squad 2 as above 265 points
Trp - Term Squad w/ 5 add troops sword, hammer, 8 falchions 400 points

Fast Attack- Storm raven w/ assault cannon, hvy bolters, psybolts 225 points

Hvy - land raider 255 points

1999 total


My comments are posted below.

"I am just going to go ahead and post comments for both lists here. I think they are both interesting and the real question, which is the same for all GK armies, is how to get as much infantry on the table while not sacrificing mobility and threat.  I think we can do better with a combination of both lists.

"First, I think you need to have vehicles. Grey Knights die like any other marine, so some protection is needed. That means we need to trim the fat in some places. A bonus to this army is its ability to deepstrike just about everything in, so you have a bit of mobility through that. Your sweet spot is going to be just inside the 24" range where you can chew things up with your booku amount of shots while still staying out of assault range until you can charge in and assault for a certain victory. That said, I think we can modify your units just a bit and keep their potential while also adding in some threat with a vehicle.

"The librarian is going to be your best friend. Everyone seems to think that he is awesome out of all of the generic HQ choices. I agree. If you are giving him a hammer, don't give him digital weapons as they provide rerolls to wound and he is already wounding on 2+. I would use those 5 points to get another psychic power. In this case, I would either get shrouding or summoning. If you get summoning take a teleport homer off of one of your purgation squads and put it on him so that when he summons, things land where you want them.

"The inquisitor will be nice too. With TDA and a psycannon, he is a great model. I assume you will give him hammerhand? I think that is all he can get, but can't remember. Anyway, he is great just for the additional psycannon and servo skulls. 

"I think the vindicare will be super nasty, but will attract a lot of attention. He would be a good reason to give the libby shrouding as that will provide him a 2+ cover save in terrain. I would caution you to be careful, though. 4D6+a possible D3 for pen could be nice, but it is far from dependable. You could roll low. I think he is going to be great for taking out mid-weight AV. For the AV14, I would mass psycannon fire or try to get hammerhand and a daemon hammer into the vehicle.

"Next up we see the purifiers. Everyone I have seen run these in an army does so with halberds. I know you are limited in model range, so that isn't possible. You may look at cutting them down to five guys to help make room for something else if you need the points elsewhere.

"The strike squads look good and I think they will be pretty solid. It is also nice to be able to combat squad them for additional troops to grab objectives. On KP or victory points missions, I would leave them in 10 man squads and again use them in terrain under shrouding to creating a nasty gunline.

"I love the terminator squads. They rock. A lot of people aren't fans, but I think they are amazing troops.  In your instance, it looks like you are going for a nasty combat threat. So, I would change them up a bit. Since you have the halberd models, take a squad of 5 with 4 halberds and an MC hammer. Drop the other 5. That gives you 200pt. If we can trim a further 25-30, you can get a stormraven to put them in, and I think that would be a good combo. The falchions look nice on paper for the +1A, but having I6 is always going to be nice. Besides, on the charge, the terms will have 3 attacks and if they are in a stormraven, they should be getting off the charge. You won't need the falchions as much in that case. Being able to kill even ICs before they kill you is great. I would go that route.

"To get the remaining points, I would drop the 1 additional model from each purgation squad dropping them down to 5 models each. Also drop the warding stave as it only works in combat and you don't want those guys in combat. They need to be at that 24" distance pumping shots in the opponent's army. With the savings from them and the terminators, you could probably put together a stormraven with assault cannons, heavy bolters, hurricane bolters, and psybolt ammo and that is just nasty.

"So, ultimately, I propose a combination of the two armies with a few minor changes to some units. Something like this:

HQ- Inquisitor w/ term armor, psycannon, 3 servo skulls, level 1 psyker - 119 points
HQ- Librarian- Mastercrafted thunderhammer, sanctuary, warp rift, shrouding, summoning 175 points

Elite- Vindicare Assassin 145 points
Elite- Purifier Squad w/ 5 add troop, psycannon, psybolts 270 points

Trp- Strike Squad w/ 5 add, 2 psycannons, halberd, hammer, falchion, psybolt 265 points
Trp- Strike Squad w/ 5 add, 2 psycannons, halberd, hammer, falchion, psybolt 265 points
Trp - Term Squad w/ MC hammer, 4 halberds 205 points

Fast- Stormraven- assault cannons, heavy bolters, hurricane bolters, psybolt 255 points

Hvy- Purgation squad w/ 2 psilencers, 2 psycannons, homer 165 points
Hvy- Purgation squad w/ 3 psilencers, teleport homer 135 points

1999 total

"This gives you a fast hammer in the terminators in stormraven. It is backed up by all sorts of shooting. You can also choose to advance your purgation squads a bit and use their homers to bring the strike squads in, but if terrain is advantageous, I would just deploy everything and shoot away from turn 1. Once the terminators are stuck in, the stormraven needs to go gunship on anything it can find. If it can get rear armor visibility, it should be able to shred some armor as well, especially AV10 rear armor.

So, let me know what you think."

Internet readers, hopefully you can get an idea of what models my friend has to play with from his lists.  He can't go optimized as he doesn't have the access to psycannon models and halberds everywhere.  However, again, I think from what he has, he has a very nice selection.  So, what do you think?  Is my proposed list better?  Do he have enough to make a decent showing at a GT?  You be the judge.

Blood Angel Barbeque

Some have already named this particular list, or it's variations rather, the flamestorm.  I thought I would take a stab at creating a Blood Angel army that put down as many flamer templates as possible while still remaining somewhat competitive (meaning being able to handle armor as well as infantry).  In order to get the most out of this army, I had to specialize a bit, but ultimately, I think the army has a good bit of balance. Perhaps not as good as Stelek's version, but not bad.  So, without further ado, the Blood Angel Barbeque:

Libby- shield, lance- 100pt.

5 Sternguard- 2x heavy flamer, 2x combi-meltas, sarge with combi-flamer, in razorback with TLHF- 215pt.
5 Sternguard- 2x heavy flamer, 2x combi-meltas, sarge with combi-flamer, in razorback with TLHF- 215pt.
3 Sanguinary Priests- 2 with hand flamer/lightning claw, 1 with hand flamer/ccw- 210pt.

5 Assault Marines- flamer, sarge with hand flamer, in razorback with TLHF- 135pt.
5 Assault Marines- flamer, sarge with hand flamer, in razorback with TLHF- 135pt.
5 Assault Marines- flamer, sarge with hand flamer, in razorback with TLHF- 135pt.
5 Assault Marines- meltagun, sarge with infernus pistol, in razorback with TLHF- 145pt.
5 Assault Marines- meltagun, sarge with infernus pistol, in razorback with TLHF- 145pt.
5 Assault Marines- meltagun, sarge with infernus pistol, in razorback with TLHF- 145pt.

Baal Pred-flamestorm cannon, sponson heavy flamers- 140pt.
Baal Pred-flamestorm cannon, sponson heavy flamers- 140pt.
2 Landspeeder Squadron- 2x multi-melta/heavy flamer- 140pt.

All told, this army puts down 31 flamer templates, 14 of which are mounted on fast vehicles.  That breaks down to 2 S6 templates, 10 S5 templates, 8 TL S5 templates, 5 S4 templates (2 one-time uses), and 6 S3 templates. On top of this, the army has 12 melta weapons. All of this is packed into 12 vehicles and across 49 marines.  In any turn when you want to apply the flamers to full effect, you will need to apply the 1+1 principles.  Move your razorback up 12", deploy the unit inside, and flame.  This is pretty straightforward.  The Baals will attempt to draw fire by scout moving ahead of the general advance and getting to flamer range themselves.  Once out of the transports the marines inside aren't too shabby, though the army distinctly misses power weapons.  I was able to crowbar in 2 lightning claws on sanguinary priests and, of course, the libby has a force weapon.  All in all, I think this is a kind of gmicky list, but it can handle both infantry and armor to some extent and poses a moderate combat threat as well.  Nids will have brown trousers against this army.

What do you think?  Time to throw another shrimp on the barbie?

Strictly Average

I have been thinking about all of the variations of armies I can create with current model collection and I got to thinking about a question:  What makes a plain 'ol Space Marine army?  What counts as your average Space Marine army?  For the purpose of this post I am going to limit that to Codex Marines as all of the chapters have their "average" builds.  My purpose here is to examine what makes a totally vanilla, strictly generic list. 

Here are a few of the things I have noticed as models included in most average gameplay lists.

HQ

Libby- This guy is your bog standard HQ choice.  He has more utility than a captain or chapter master though he isn't as tough in combat.  He is also cheaper than the named characters.

Elite
Terminators and Dreads- These seem to be the general all-purpose no brainer inclusions.  The dreadnoughts tend to come in the rifleman (2x TL autocannons) variety more often than not while the terminators are almost always toting thunder hammers and storm shields. 

Troops
Hmmm....Tac Squads- I see quite a bit of variation in weapons choices here, but tac squads tend to come in two varieties, 10-man squads for the weapon choices or 5-man squads for the razorback options. 

Fast
Melta/Flamer Land Speeders- These are the ultimate in terms of duality and expendability.  At 70pts, they can take out tanks, infantry, or just block movement and provide target saturation. 

Heavy
Predators- The cheap kind, autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons, for the same reason you take melta/flamer speeders.  They can perform dual roles, are cheap, and can provide a decent threat. 

So, these seem to be the winners by majority.  I am not saying that they are the only thing that can be used to make a list, but they are usually part of the original recipe of chicken here. 

Here is a list I put together (quickly) using these elements:

Libby-terminator armor, storm shield, null zone, gate of infinity- 140pt.

Dreadnought- 2x TL autocannons- 125pt.
Dreadnought- 2x TL autocannons- 125pt.
10 Assault Terminators- th/ss- 400pt.

10-man Tac Squad- multi-melta, melta, power weapon (more annoying than you would think), rhino- 225pt.
10-man Tac Squad- multi-melta, melta, power weapon, rhino- 225pt.
5-man Tac Squad- melta bombs, lascannon/TL plasma razorback- 170pt.
5-man Tac Squad- lascannon/TL plasma razorback- 165pt.
5-man Scout Squad- sniper rifles, camo cloaks, missile launcher, teleport homer

Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 70pt.
Landspeeder- multi-melta/heavy flamer- 70pt.

Predator- autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons- 85pt.
Predator- autocannon, heavy bolter sponsons- 85pt.

2,000pt exactly

As mentioned, this rings in somewhere close to a bog standard list.  The scouts infiltrate.  The libby goes with the terminators who stay in a ten man squad or combat squad to provide additional threats.  The libby gates the terminators forward using the teleport homer on the scouts.  The two rhinos move up to midfield to become melta bunkers under cover from the dreads, razorbacks, and predators.  The speeders deepstrike in to pop armor or deploy to zoom forward, block movement, and pop armor. 

It has your basic all-comers elements as well.  There is the ability to take out armor with autocannons, melta, lascannons, and plasmaguns.  It has elite/heavy infantry in the form of the hammernators.  It has the ability to torrent fire to some extent.  Most of the units can fulfill dual roles.  It has plenty of scoring ability. 

But it doesn't stand out as anything special.  I am not mentioning anything that most of you wouldn't already be thinking.  That's why this list is strictly average. 

So, here's your homework.  Come up with your version of strictly average from the C:SM and post it in a comment.  Let's compare.  Am I coming to totally weird conclusions?  Do you agree or disagree with my estimate as to what serves as average?  Let me know.

To Ven or not to Ven....

I just read an interesting article over on 3++ by Zjoekov.  It talks about a couple things that he has noticed about the new GK Codex.  The inquisitor piece is nice, but I'm not all that interested in the inquisition portions of the codex, or at least not at the moment. What really got my attention is the portion about halfway down about the difference between Ven Dread and normal Dreads.  I love dreadnoughts and Zjoekov really made a few interesting points. 

1) He stated the popular build for GK dreads is the psyfleman and as such, it would appear that the normal dread benefits the most from this setup.  Ven dreads are more pricey and due to their increased WS and BS, they aren't utilizing the psyfleman setup as efficiently.  The point Zjoekov makes, though, is that they are more survivable that regular dreads.  That is their main appeal. 

2) The other point of appeal which I haven't full considered is that taking Ven dreads allows you to utilize the heavy slots for other models, namely (from Zjoekov's perspective) Dreadknights.  By putting in ven dreads, you can add Dreadknights to increase your combat potential across the army in general. 

So, those are the main points that stuck out to my dread loving mind.  Take a look at the full article here: Some thoughts on Grey Knights - Inquisitors, Purifiers, Dreadnoughts and Dreadknights

Know thy enemy: Tau

I'm not going to attempt to try to write a definite summary of the strengths and weaknesses of the Tau codex, but after playing in my last game, I was tempted to see what could have been done by my opponent to improve his list. 

From what I can see after having looked over their codex and playing against Tau a few games, Tau really need to have an awesome turn 2 and 3 shooting phase to gain enough forward motion to pull out a win.  Thus, it seems that a large array of high strength and low AP shots need to be available.  This army is all about torrenting wounds through shooting and then avoiding and denying points through JSJ and skimmer movement.  Unfortunately, that leads to rather 1 dimensional army in my book, but such is the way of this particular codex.  So here's what I came up with considering a minimal amount of research.

Pros for the codex:  Loads of mid to high strength shooting attacks that have a long range.  The basis for Tau shooting is S5 AP5 shooting with a range of 30".  They also have a slew of other higher strength shots from missile pods (autocannon stats), plasma rifle (non overheating plasmaguns) to railguns (72" range S10 AP1 shots!).  Suffice it to say that this codex screams "keep them at arms length".  Tau pack a punch at range. 

Elite, Heavy, and Fast slots are necessities.  This army is truly made by it's Elite, Heavy and Fast slots.  As a matter of fact, rarely will you fill your troop alottment in a Tau army, but you will almost always fill your other FO slots.  They provide you with the ranged punch that you really need.  They also provide you with a lot of your survivability, bringing with them multi-wound 3+ armored models, higher AV values that can remained obscured even in open ground while staying outside of 12", and fast vehicles that are great at blocking.  These slots are precious, worth their weight in gold.  They have to be used appropriately.  They will make or break the army they are in.

Jump Shoot Jump.  This is a totally cool rule that allows a unit of crisis suits to move forward into firing range, shoot and then move away during their assault phase to relative safety either out of counter assault range, into cover, or both.  This is a sweet rule for Tau players, while a pain in the butt for opponents who can't come to grips with the army. 

Alongside JSJ comes mobility.  Like all forms of eldar, Tau have a great capacity to outmaneuver an opponent's army.  That is huge as they need to keep their distance for more shooting.

Cons for the codex: There are quite a few, but that doesn't mean that the army is worthless, it just means that special attention must be paid in order to make the army work. 

The primary con of this codex is the assault phase.  There isn't a single unit in the army that can even stand up to a stiff breeze in combat.  This army can't even outfight a combat squad of marines (perhaps a bit of an exaggeration). 

I also see leadership being an issue.  An Ethereal solves that to some degree, but LD7 is not good. As such, this army seems a bit more reliant of dice to win the day for it, which is never a good thing. 

So, in trying to understand Tau better I have decided to put together an army and see what it could accomplish.  I doubt I will ever play a game with it or anything, not even on Vassal, but I wanted to go through the mental exercise of creating a list that I think could be somewhat competitive.  Here is what I came up with:

HQ
Shas'el- missile pod, plasma rifle, multi-tracker- 87pt.
Ethereal- 50pt.

Elite
3 Crisis suits- each with missile pods and plasma rifles, two with multi-trackers, and one with a drone controller with 2x shield drones- 211pt
3 Crisis suits- each with missile pods and plasma rifles, two with multi-trackers, and one with a drone controller with 2x shield drones- 211pt.
3 Crisis suits- each with missile pods and plasma rifles, two with multi-trackers, and one with a drone controller with 2x shield drones- 211pt.

Troop
7 fire warrior team- shas'ui with markerlight, devilfish with burst cannon, sms, disruption pod- 195pt.
10 kroot- 4 hounds- 94pt.
10 kroot- 3 hounds- 88pt.

Fast
Piranha- fusion blaster, 2x gun drones- 65pt.
Piranha- fusion blaster, 2x gun drones- 65pt.
4 pathfinders- carbines and markerlights, devilfish with burst cannon, sms, disruption pod- 153pt.

Heavy
Hammerhead-railgun, sms, disruption pod- 165pt.
Hammerhead-railgun, sms, disruption pod- 165pt.
3 Broadside Suits-each with railgun, sms, advanced stabilization- 240pt.

2,000pt.

What I forsee this army being good at is taking out AV in the first few turns.  Having 5 S10 AP1 shots per turn is an unprecedented ability that only Tau have.  Not many armies even have access to S10, much less can take more than 3 S10 guns.  This army will seek to maintain a distance to blow up as many tanks as possible in turns 1-3.  Then it goes to work on infantry.  The crisis suits will work together to torrent a unit or two at a time.  Focused firepower is a must.  Everything will go towards funneling firepower into units to neutralize them quickly.  I will use markerlights to improve me shooting and then back up.  This would be a seriously 1 dimensional army to play, but alas that is the way the cards were dealt.  To be successful it has to be a tough army that won't make you any friends.

So, did I miss the mark?  Would this army work?  Am I missing any no-brainer units, characters, or upgrades?   Let me know.  Thanks.

Grey Knights: The next step for me

After really looking at the army and how it performed against Tau, I have decided to think towards a few changes for the army. If you read my battle report, you will see some repeat information here.

The things I noticed as ineffective were:

The librarian sounds good at 5 points per power, but I found that he didn't use all of them.  I decided to drop warp rift as it has a limited range and didn't come in to effect at all during the game.  His primary roll was to buff his unit and the surrounding units. 

I also dropped a servo skull from the libby.  There are a few reasons.  #1 against shooty armies, I want infiltrators further forward so that I can catapult my army forward through assaulting and consolidating.  This will allow me to get into an opponent's lines without taking too many casualties.  #2 is the self destruct rule.  I found that by placing the skulls, my opponent simply had to move up and in the first turn or two ( I had the bottom of each turn) he was able to neutralize them by getting within 6".  Thus, I decided to keep two in order to maintain some control over infiltrators and scouts, but ultimately by time I would be ready to deepstrike, most if not all of the skulls were already removed. 

The venerable dreads just didn't produce for the points I invested in them.  As I have mentioned, the venerable reroll never works for me, so I decided to drop them and add a third regular psyfleman dread. 

With the points I saved, I added a 5th terminator squad with the same setup as the others with the exception of the MC Hammer.  I needed the 5 points. 

I dropped the incinerator and digital weapons from my GM and decided that another psycannon would be nice to fill out the gap left by my missing 4th dread.  Finally, to provide some flexibility, I added a teleport homer to my libby in the event that I felt that I needed to deepstrike in some terminators. 

So after all changes, this is what my next step looks like:

Grandmaster- MC NF Sword, psycannon, psychotroke and rad grenades- 255pt.
Librarian- NF Sword, 2x servo skulls, Quicksilver, Might of Titan, Sanctuary, Shrouding, teleport homer- 195pt.

5 GK Terminators- psycannon, 2x halberd, 1x MC hammer- 230pt. 

5 GK Terminators- psycannon, 2x halberd, 1x MC hammer- 230pt.

5 GK Terminators- psycannon, 2x halberd, 1x MC hammer- 230pt.

5 GK Terminators- psycannon, 2x halberd, 1x MC hammer- 230pt.
5 GK Terminators- psycannon, 2x halberd, 1x hammer- 225pt.

Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo- 135pt.

Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo- 135pt.
Dreadnought- 2x TL Autocannon, Psybolt Ammo- 135pt.

2,000pt on the dot.

This boils down to more troops, more bodies in general, and for the cost of 1 dread's worth (4) of S8 shots, I have added a possible 8 S7 rending shots.  Ultimately, I think that this will produce more tank kills and make my GM more useful at range.  This also firmly establishes my librarian as a support character and as such will change how I play him a bit, mainly by keeping him out of combat where possible so that I can use him to buff my units. 

Ultimately, for any army with no elite or fast choices, I think the army has a lot of depth as it can compete in all phases of the game.  I do think it will struggle with fast armies, but still stands a good chance of doing some damage as there simply isn't enough AP2 and 1 firepower in most armies to seriously hampers so many 2+ saves.